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A recap of the Marriott Vacation Club program presentation, and what we learned.
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We attended the Marriott Vacation Club presentation yesterday and got out unscathed. It wasn't as high-pressure as I expected, but that could be because I prepared for it. Having done a lot of reading ahead of time, I had been able to run some numbers before the pitch and prepare myself for what it would look like; so while it's all fresh, let me share it here.
Their pitch is basically that you buy in for a fixed amount upfront, in exchange for a number of points per year, forever. The starting package is $33,200 which gives you 2000 points per year. That's $16.60 per point. Those points can be used for any of their properties, worldwide. The cost varies per place, per type of room, per season, and per day of the week. Those costs (in points) for a particular room at a particular location never go up: a 1300-point room will always be a 1300-point room. And the amount of points you earn each year stays the same forever as well (unless you buy more at then-current prices, which do rise over time).
Separate from the buy-in and the yearly points, you have yearly fees. The yearly fees DO climb in price over time. There's a maintenance fee that's currently $0.68/point ($1360/yr in the case of the package outlined above), plus a $230 per year Resort Fee I think they called it, to cover the program, like banking points or borrowing points, membership in the exchange program, etc. That totals $1590 per year in fees on top of the buy-in amount. That yearly cost will go up over time, but I didn't get a solid answer of what that rate of increase is - I think he said 1-2% per year for the Resort fee, and that the Maintenance fee had risen two or three times since 2010. Those are important numbers to pin down if you were actually interested in buying in - which we never were. That's the thing that leads most people to want to exit the program - those yearly fees that you're responsible for, forever.
His pitch was not very streamlined and bounced from one thing to another, but nothing ever landed. For my part, when he started to probe about what I knew about the program and what the pros and cons were, I replied that it was his presentation, not mine, and he had me for 90 minutes, so please go ahead. He tried to give figures of what people spend on vacations (using ridiculously unrealistic high numbers) and the saying what you would "save" by being a member - but he liked to ignore the upfront cost when calculating what you would "spend". And the numbers he started with were vastly higher than I've ever spent on a hotel room to begin with.
The way he chose to highlight the properties was odd as well - his favorite resort in Kauai, I think it was, he kept saying it had the biggest pool in Hawaii. I'm sure some people want that, but when I go to Hawaii, the size of the hotel pool is at the very bottom of the list I'm ticking off.
My wife (who entered like me with no interest in buying in) asked him if there's a way out if we decide down the road that we don't want to continue in the program. He said Marriott offers an "Exit Strategy" where they will buy your points back for half of the current retail price (currently $16.60, so $8.30 per point). He said the company wants not just happy members but happy ex-members as well. I asked who pays the escrow fees in that case and the seller (the member) does, he said. We didn't get into the specifics of those fees. I asked him, if it were true that there was a viable "Exit Strategy", then why were there people selling their packages for $2 per point? He said the Marriott will swoop in and buy those points themselves, to keep those points in their pocketbook. But I pointed out that there are brokerages' pages littered with packages of points for $2-3.50 per point up for grabs. Pages and pages of packages for sale by people who just wanted out of the program. He said that they weren't in Escrow yet, and that's why Marriott hadn't swooped in yet (lol).
[Sidenote about brokerages - the seller might be willing to get out for $2/point, but there are Escrow fees the buyer must pay, a $300 "Education Fee" Marriott charges to the buyer, plus a $3/pt Transfer fee that gets paid to Marriott by the buyer. So a $2500 sale becomes $6320 paid by the buyer (see here for example).]
We knew those numbers going in, so there wasn't really an approach he found that was effective to us.
When it came time to offer us "Incentives" his pitch was "instead of 2000 points yearly, how about 1000 - and instead of $1360/yr in maintenance fees, $680. Your maintenance fees are cut in half." Well yeah buddy, because the number of points are cut in half too. When I laughed at that and pointed out that it wasn't a discount, it was simply fewer points, he said "But also! Your cost per point is not $16.60 but $15.70." So a discount of 6% I think that works out to. I chuckled again, and he offered 2000 extra points (one-time points, not yearly points) and quoted their value at like $9800 or something, and threw some financing numbers to us. I think he said $1570 upfront and like $280 per month - no duration given, nor interest rate on that. Then he also quickly suggested the AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant card with 0% for 15 months, and you'd earn 6 Bonvoy miles per dollar spent (assuming your approved credit line was high enough to cover the buy-in), which would give you 94,200 Bonvoy points for the purchase, and give you 15 months to pay it off at 0% - a payment of $1,308/month during those 15 months). But we weren't interested in any of that.
After that, he agreed we weren't interested, and he sent us to a closer who offered us a couple packages at this same hotel, at basically retail, but with bonus Bonvoy miles included. That wasn't interesting either. So then they gave us the voucher for the agreed-upon gift, 10k Bonvoy miles, and said thanks for your time.
So here are some points I thought helped in the negotiation:
- We gave real-world examples of places we had stayed at prices far below the examples he was giving. Reject the assumption that you are currently over-paying for your trips (but that's assuming you aren't).
- Telling him it was his presentation, not mine, seemed to knock him off balance a little but because he didn't know which direction to come at us.
- I was prepared with copies of folks selling their shares on brokerages ( example), and a copy of the point table for this property which I found here. I didn't need to pull any of those out, but I was glad I had prepared them.
One thing I spent some time on in preparation was this one: I wanted to compare what a hotel in the program costs using points, versus what it's available for on the open market in cash. The property we're staying at costs $1070 for these same dates on Booking.com, available to the public (we paid $150 for three nights in exchange for attending their presentation). So $1070 is what you can rent this room for at retail for those same three nights. As a member of the program, the number of points needed to reserve the same room on these same days is 1300. Those 1300 points at $16.6/pt is $21,580, based on the buy-in cost upfront. That's absurd, but remember we're at the start, where the cost per point hasn't averaged out yet - we're still looking at the whole buy-in cost, divided by one year's worth of points. (The following year, you have another 2000 points, so the cost per point has gone down by half theoretically. The next year, it's cut in thirds (really simplistically speaking). That cost per point will go down every year you own the membership, but that first year cost is astronomical.)
So then I wanted to calculate the average of your cost per point (just based on the buy-in cost and points earned) over time. The retail price of the room was $1070, divided by the number of points needed to reserve it (1300) is .82. So $0.82 is the cost per point I need to reach in order for the cost I'm paying (in points) to equal what the cost is commonly available in cash. So, here's the math I got by plugging in years and working it out: 20 years x 2,000 points per year is 40,000 points. $33,800 upfront divided by 40,000 points is $0.83 per point. That's close enough to the .82 we were aiming at. So: at a $33,800 buy-in, it would take 20 years in the program for the average cost per point to drop enough that I'd be paying the same rate I could get on the open market today - and that's without factoring in the yearly fees at all. (1590 x 20 years is another $31,800 over that time - not accounting for cost increases - remember the yearly fees do increase over time).
So we're still on the trip, and it's time to go museum walking, so I'll leave it there for today. I'll try to answer any questions when I'm back online.
Top Comment:
That’s a lot of preparation for something I usually show up drunk to and just bs for 90 minutes. Last time I did one of these presentations in Orlando I told the guy that I was really interested in space vacations going forward.
Opinion on Marriott Vacation Club?
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My fiancé and I recently joined this program but still have a 10 day window to back out. It seemed like a good deal as we were planning to spend big on a honeymoon and decided to just put some of that money towards this and just have prepaid travel for years to come. However, the vast majority of reviews I see are negative, but with no real explanation as to why. I’m already distrustful of timeshares, but seeing the key differences and flexibility of this program made me okay to move forward knowing I have 10 days to find out more and back out. So why do you guys hate or love this program? Would you recommend us back out? If so, why?
Top Comment:
rescind, read the TUG marriott forums https://tugbbs.com/forums , and then buy resale.
absolutely no reason to pay inflated retail prices!
Vacation Club Members
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Are any Members here part of the Vacation Club by Marriott ?
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Before pulling the trigger examine the resale market. There usually are plenty for sale on the secondary market.
I don’t own a Marriott timeshare but I own a Hyatt timeshare that I bought as a resale around 15 years ago for around 1/3 of the retail price. I have been to most of the Marriott Vacation Club properties in Hawaii, Aruba, Virgin Islands to name a few by trading through II and I am treated exactly the same as if I purchased directly.
Vacation clubs can be great, but don’t overpay just because you are on a vacation high.
Vacation Clubs without the time share?
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Anyone understand why some vacation clubs (like grande vista in Orlando) show up as hotels, let you book by the night, and even offer mmp rates while others (like ocean club in Aruba) don’t show up at all?
Top Comment:
They aren’t full. Usually a crappy experience. Limited benefits
Marriott Vacation Offers?
Main Post: Marriott Vacation Offers?
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You have to spend 90-minutes with a timeshare sales person, but otherwise we’ve enjoyed these offers. Be prepared to say no a lot. I’ve found it effective to say I already own a timeshare and know I don’t need another.